Nick: So let�s get right down to it - why after all this time, a solo album?
Wino: Well, I got kind of tired of playing in bands full time. It was really starting to become unproductive. Hidden Hand was a bit rocky towards the end - on the Euro tour - there were personality issues, a few schisms. At the end of the day I asked myself, do I really want to do this full time? I didn�t. But I looked around, felt my playing was its peak, that I�d collected some nice gear, and had more stuff in me. The main push was Jean Paul [Gaster, Clutch]. Those guys have taken us out on the road in every incarnation. We�re good friends and talked about recording a record some day. I finished a few songs I�d been working on and resurrected a couple of old ones. Paul was so enthusiastic it was contagious - it was all the push I needed. So was Jon Blank, from Rezin. I knew he was good, but I didn�t know how good. I was going to ask him to play bass on a couple of tracks and I was going to play bass on everything else. After a couple of practices he asked if he had a shot at playing it all. He learned everything fast and there was really good chemistry. And there�s the production. I�m not one to blow my own horn, but this is the best sounding record yet.
Nick: It was produced by J. Robbins. He did the last Hidden Hand record, right?
Wino: Well with that one, first it was Bruce [Falkinburg, bassist/singer in The Hidden Hand], but he had a break down with it and we passed it off to J. Bruce got three-quarters through, got frustrated with it, and then J. took it. If you listen to this one, you�ll know what I mean when I say it�s the best. He turned out to be the man with the magical touch.
Nick: As far Gaster and Blank go, I was wondering how much direction you gave them. When I listen to, say, �Wild Blue Yonder,� which has a bass solo, I wonder how much of that you wrote.
Wino: It�s funny you picked up on that one. With �Wild Blue Yonder� we went into the studio with just the framework and the guitar melody - that�s all we had. The whole idea was to get into the studio, get warmed up and when we were hot jam it. What you hear on the record is edited down from this magical 18 minute jam. We�ll probably use the whole thing for something eventually. We went in with the intent of making something magical and it just did. Another strange thing is we recorded in two sessions - Jean Paul had commitments with Clutch - but there�s really no major schisms or sound changes.
Nick: Speaking of schisms - I�m looking at the press pack and it appears the vinyl version is different. What�s that about?
Wino: There are four more songs, bonus tracks, if you buy the vinyl version. There�s a 12� in a sleeve of the gatefold, and there�s 10� as well. That�s got some of the best songs on it in my opinion. Greg [Anderson, Southern Lord Records] had an idea of what he thought would be the best song arrangement. To be honest, his favorite was �Release Me,� the bluesiest one, which really surprised me.
Nick: How does this compare to other albums you�ve recorded over the years, as far as the recording experience goes?
Wino: It was really easy to do because the musicianship was so high. Jean Paul and Jon, their caliber is so high. We rehearsed some. There wasn�t a lot of putting stuff off. We knew we had a time frame and we did it. There�ve been other great records recently, [The Hidden Hand�s] Mother, Teacher, Destroyer and [The Obsessed�s] The Church Within, I think they�re especially timeless.
Nick: You mentioned resurrecting songs from earlier in your career. Which ones?
Wino: �The Women in Orange Pants� is from 1979 or `78, a song called �Brain Drain.� It made it on some weird Obsessed EP/quasi bootleg. I carried the riff from �Release Me� for a long time until recently. The rest were written for the record. I took ideas to Jean Paul and Jon and they helped with arrangements. All their ideas were really good, and things turned out well between the three of us. One thing about Jean Paul is that he loves crazy timing. It�s fun for me too, especially on tracks like �Eyes of the Flesh� and �The Gift.� Well, �The Gift� is one of the bonus songs, but it�s probably the most technical track on the record. I�d been carrying that one around for a long time too. I�ve only ever played it with one other drummer who understood it. Jean Paul and I hammered it out in two or three nights and Jon learned it one fucking night. Oddly enough that was one of Greg�s least favorites. But hey, compromises are in my back of tricks. They�re important and you�ve got to especially respect your label.
Nick: Lyrically this seems all over the place. It strikes me you�ve gotten more political, or at least more vocal about your political views over the years. So what�s the deal with this record?
Wino: I�ve become more interested in it the last few years. What I see is pretty goddamn scary and I need to talk about it. When you get the final product, you�ll see there are lyrics and stories about each song in the booklet. How can someone remain silent in the face of such fucking bullshit? We got lucky; we elected a good guy as president, but it could have gone the other way and we�d be deeper in shit. I feel like I have to say something. Take a song like �Gods, Frauds, and Demagogues� for instance. �At Nicaea they proclaim the law� - these clergy got together, made new rules, got drunk, and laughed at these meetings, at how this myth of Christianity has served them well. Hey, I�m not an atheist, I believe in a higher power, the Goddess, or Great Spirit, just no denominations. They�ve created this whole political ideology out of this twisted interpretation of a religion that was man-made, created out of greed. That [song is] probably the most overt, political tune. Then again I talk about down to earth stuff on �Release Me.� A local guy here said, �hey thanks for finally talking about something we can understand - a song about a girl.�
Nick: You�re well known within a particular scene, but what about at large? I�d think the Probot thing would�ve upped your profile.
Wino: Probot definitely helped, but I didn�t notice it elevate things too much. There are diehard fans; I see a lot of the same people at shows. A lot of people said they liked my track [on the Probot record] best, which was a great compliment. It was a really fun to do that with Dave [Grohl], especially the videos, being on stage with fucking Lemmy [Kilmister], jamming air guitars with all those girls. We felt like a couple of lecherous old men. You know Lemmy - �I fancy the black chick.� We recorded a second video for Probot too, [�My Tortured Soul�] with me and Greg on guitar and Eric [Wagner, Trouble] singing [on MTV2].
Nick: Is this album a studio thing or is it a band?
Wino: We�re going to do some shows. There are ten dates in Europe and we�re playing at the Roadburn afterparty. Maybe we�ll do South by Southwest and try to do some other stuff. Jean Paul is busier with Clutch than what I�m doing. Those guys are on the road full time.
[Editor`s note: The Wino band will be playing its debut show on Saturday, February 6, at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC.]
Nick: You mentioned getting burnt out on the full time band thing. Did this project change your mind?
Wino: To be honest, this sort of gave me a shot in the arm. I felt like this record, it made me feel better about things; it made me want to keep playing. I�ve been playing music for so long, never making enough money to pay the bills, but I�ve understood it as art. Then again, I�m approaching 50 and reached the point where it�s like, wow, how much longer can I just play? That�s all I�ve ever done and I�ve got nothing to fall back on. It becomes your life. I guess the hope is that there will be enough acclaim for this and enough need to play that it gets more lucrative. I�ve got other stuff in the works but�
Nick: Shrinebuilder, with Scott Kelly [Neurosis], Al Cisneros [Om], and Dale Crover [Melvins]. What�s the future of that look like?
Wino: We haven�t rehearsed that too much, but hopefully will get to jamming in January. There are more �Vitus reunions for me and we�re all pretty busy. We all agreed that if it�s not up to snuff we�re not letting it out. There�s a level of professionalism about it. We�ll probably play some shows, but everyone�s touring.
Nick: Speaking of Saint Vitus - how does it feel to be on stage with guys you played with 30 years ago?
Wino: It brought back memories. It was cool, but also a little bit said. It took however many, 20, 30 years and we couldn�t even sell out the show in Chicago [July 1, 2003 at the Double Door], 500 seats and we almost sold it out. It�s weird, in Europe, we play to 6,000 people. Even in the early days, some guys in Germany contacted [our label] SST and arranged for us to play there. We went over and that was the first time we every played to more than 500 people. They had the record and they fucking loved it. There�s something about European males, they must be hardwired for it. I remember the first time we went to Germany and went to a show and every dude was towering over us. I was drowning in this sea of huge fucking Viking dudes.
Nick: If the music thing is easier in Europe, why aren�t you living there right now?
Wino: Well, Europe is a pain in the ass - it�s hard, not like the states. Stores close early. It cost a million dollars to make a call. Our money used to be worth more there, almost double, but not it isn�t� worth shit. And people spit on you for being a pawn of George Bush. The last Hidden Hand tour, we left a show and Bruce stayed around to smoke a cigarette. These guys found out he was American and started picking a fight with him. I mean the French have always hated us, but the rest of Europe, that�s new.
Nick: After all these years, do you ever just space on a lyric or a guitar part on stage? Do you know all of your own songs?
Wino: Of course I forget things. When we were getting ready for this project we had to have more than ten songs, so we resurrected some old ones. We�re playing something from every band. I�m relearning shit as we speak. It�s true, the brains like a hard drive you can wipe clean. At one point in Spirit Caravan, we had something like 50 songs worked out, which was impressive: two hours plus of material we could do and do well.
Nick: You�ve never spoken much about the breakup of The Hidden Hand. Why is that?
Wino: I didn�t handle it right, I�ll say that. In the end, I ended up apologizing to Bruce. Some shit happened, and I didn�t handle it right. I was little bit mad, bitter, wound up, wasn�t in the best of spirits or health, and I let one of the things get to me, so I lit it on fire and burned it. In retrospect though some of what we did was amazing. Mother Teacher Destroyer is one of my favorite records I�ve worked on. I know a lot of people didn�t like it and said shit about Bruce�s singing, but he pushed hard and was really creative.
